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'Guptas used ministers, officials to show off', commission hears

Former mineral resources minister Ngoako Ramatlhodi

Former mineral resources minister Ngoako Ramatlhodi

Photo by Creamer Media

28th November 2018

By: African News Agency

  

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Former mineral resources minister Ngoako Ramatlhodi did not hold back as he testified before the commission of inquiry into State capture on Wednesday, detailing how the fugitive Gupta family controlled former president Jacob Zuma and his executive and even boasted about their acquired power openly.

So powerful were the Guptas that there was a secretary at their Saxonwold, Johannesburg home to handle the former president's diary to ensure he would do as instructed.

''I came to know that besides his secretary in the Union Buildings...there was another one for him at Saxonwold, so they [Guptas] could easily interfere with the president's diary,'' said Ramatlhodi.

The ex-minister spoke about the annual mining indaba held in Cape Town in 2015. He said his director-general at the time gave him insight into how the Guptas operated. Ramatlhodi said he heard how the Guptas hosted deputy directors general and the directors general from the mineral resources department at their private home in Cape Town during the mining indaba.

Commission chairperson Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo seemed shocked, and asked: ''You mean...in their private home? Why? For what?''

Ramatlhodi said it happened and it was the norm.

''I told him this will not happen under my watch...no department official will go to the Guptas' home. You see chairperson, these people were doing this to show off, they were demonstrating power. When you have an indaba, investors come from all over the world to look for opportunities, so they [Guptas] would invite business people who would meet the government officials at their home.''

The fugitive family had control over former president Jacob Zuma, he added.

''They had the power to summon Zuma to their home...and they would boast about it. Now, that is also a power to summon a minister who is wet behind their ears and will in effect run around to the Guptas...they called you to their home, not a hotel, chairperson.''

''It is public knowledge that before their appointments to cabinet, [former ministers] Des Van Rooyen and Mosebenzi Zwane used to camp at [Guptas' Johannesburg home] Saxonwold...they would go there all there time, I am quite sure that cellphone information would show...they can tell you when they appear here as to how many times they went there before they were appointed...they didn't care even if you referred to them as Gupta ministers.''

Concerns about the Guptas and their seemingly deepening power were were raised during African National Congress (ANC) national executive committee meetings, Ramatlhodi said. Zuma was told that his relationship with the Guptas ''was toxic'' and that he should end it. The former president would not budge and would tell his comrades that the Guptas helped him and his family when he was in trouble and no one wanted anything to do with him.

''We would shout and scream as much as we want, but at the end of the meeting he would tell us those people [Guptas] are my friends, they helped me when I was persona non grata. He said they helped his children Edward and Duduzane by giving them jobs. We raised this because this was humiliating him, and we cared about him as the president and comrade. We raised this several times but because we do not vote in the NEC, he would summarise as the last speaker and go with the minority view.''

He said he refused to attend The New Age breakfast events as he ''did not know these people'', referring to the Guptas. 

Ramatlhodi testified that a group in the ANC told Zuma he ''messed up'' after the Gupta's airplane, carrying wedding guests landed at Pretoria's Waterkloof Air Force base from India in 2013. He said the airplane landing was disrespectful to the country, and directly implicated Zuma as having given the go ahead for the landing.

''The former president was told that what happened at Waterkloof was a disgrace, we fought for the control of the base. My sense at the time was that this could not have happened without his knowledge, because chief of protocol in the Presidency at the time, now deployed to Holland, got a call from 'Number 1' as they used to call the former president. He got a phone call to okay the landing.''

Ramatlhodi said he was close with Zuma whom he first came to know in Zimbabwe in the 1980's. Ramatlhodi was head of an ANC task team called the RPMC (Regional Politico-Military Committee) when he met Zuma in Harare in 1986.  Ramatlhodi joined the ANC in 1977 and was part of those who formed the ANC 's student organisation, Cosas.

As deputy president to Thabo Mbeki, Zuma faced corruption charges in 2015 for taking bribes from a French arms company via his then financial advisor, Shabir Shaik. Zuma had many supporters who were convinced he was innocent, including Ramatlhodi. A qualified advocate, Ramathodi testified that he was part of a high level team that supported Zuma during the trial. The team was led by now International Relations Minister Lindiwe Sisulu

''It was a multifaceted team which was both defensive and offensive. We took in legal minds. [Political analyst] Professor Sipho Seepe was taken in on the basis of his background from the University of Venda. There was former judge Heath [retired and no longer a practising judge], myself and Tony Yengeni. The team had to interrogate each and everything in his court appearances...come up with strategies to get him off the hook...and I think we did very well. we got deputy president Zuma out,'' said Ramatlhodi.

Judge Hilary Squires sentenced Shaik to 15 years in prison for corruption. He ruled that he never found a “generally corrupt relationship” between the controversial businessman and Zuma.

Edited by African News Agency

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